Ep. 11: Beyond Wargames - How Serious Games Drive Government Innovation

In this episode, Donna Dupont interviews Madeline Johnson, a Senior Analyst with the Canada Revenue Agency’s Fraud Red Team and a seasoned expert in the field of serious games. Madeline’s unconventional career path—from international diplomacy to designing games that solve complex problems for the government—gives her a unique perspective on how serious games can drive real-world change.

Madeline explains how serious games differ from traditional wargames, unpacking their power to simulate complex scenarios, reveal unexpected solutions, and support decision-making in high-stakes environments. We explore how serious games can help governments tackle issues like fraud, systemic risk, and other non-armed conflict challenges. Madeline also shares insights into the creativity and analytical thinking behind game design and analysis, demonstrating how these games are far more than play—they’re powerful tools for understanding and addressing society’s toughest problems.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions on strategic and serious gaming, as well as any comments on organizational actions expressed by Madeline Johnson are hers alone and reflect her experience. They do not represent the views, opinions, or official positions of Global Affairs Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, or of the Government of Canada.

About This Episode's Guest:

Madeline Johnson is a Senior Analyst with the Canada Revenue Agency’s Fraud Red Team. She joined the CRA in May 2023 after serving as a Canadian diplomat for 13 years. Since 2018, she has been involved with serious games, finding deep satisfaction in their ability to spark creativity and provide valuable insights. Madeline views games as powerful processes for supporting the government to mitigate uncertainty in decision-making.